Hi - this is an interesting one as a self confessed rebel!
I agree with Einstein's premise but would add a caveat to this.
Firstly, authority is generally being challenged with the Net enabling people to see through the nonsense. This in part, is why the Christadelphians are in decline - would be members simply check up on the Net if something is true or not.
Going back to the point Einstein made, I have seen 'blind' faith operating with the older ones in the Christadelphians. For example, in the 1990s I saw (older) Christadelphians appealing to the editor of the Christadelphian Office to bully "wayward" Ecclesias & thereby running rough shod over the autonomy of that Ecclesia. And what drove this was a 'blind' faith in the (abusive) authority of the Christadelphian Office in which the abusive and dysfunctional way the Christadelphian Office was never questioned.
One of the things that made me so angry about the way the Christadelphian Office was held in such so high regard by some, was the complete lack of accountability. And on the matter of the scandal of money going missing and the Editor of The Christadelphian Magazine resigning, is how come some the accountants did not spot this - over a period of ten years! How come the accountants were not held accountable for their incompetence? How come there there were no checks & balances in place & how come those that should have put those checks & balances in place were not held accountable?
I understand that when this scandal broke, the money was not going to be paid back by the Christadelphian Office until, the charities whom the money had been stolen from pushed hard and demanded the money back - what the hell was going on in the minds of those in 'authority' that the Christadelphian Office did not immediately, volunteer to pay the money back? Blind faith in incompetent authority deed!
Max, Some interesting points. Truly amazing that ecclesias would vest authority over them to the cmpa, and even more bizarre that the cmpa would "accept" that authority. You don't have to be clever to see that a magazine publisher has no authority AT ALL over a collection of religious meetings. More fool them for accepting that. Ecclesial autonomy is something of a misnomer too. In (I think) 2016, the magazine reported on a recording brother who had been in place for 70 years. My own former ecclesia has AB's from only 3 families, and all, including the RB have been in place for 25 years+, and as people die, the "gene pool" gets ever smaller. Hardly a progressive or democratic structure is it? More a recipe for abuse or at the very least, stagnation if you think about it.
With regard to the "scandal",as you call it, I too was baffled at the time as to how both professional (think qualified and paid) accountants, and also professional (think qualified, paid, and accountable), auditors could have not only missed the discrepancy, 10 times over, but also the trustees could have missed the discrepancy 10 times over too? It's a highly unlikely set of circumstances that not only beggars belief, but also gives rise to speculation as to the real motive behind there being "no complaint" being made against any party. I have a pretty good idea of what I think occurred, but it is NOT for discussion here, since no facts were ever published. Either way, within a few short years, the person at the centre of this business, was refellowshipped, and was pushing bills through my sister's door telling her to go to a Bible class at some scout hut in her village. Like nothing had happened. Nobody accountable. It's a sad fact that Christadelphians are never, ever, accountable and will seek to blame just about anybody for their incompetence. Want to know what the cmpa is about. Head over to their barely functional website at www.thechristadelphian.com scroll down a bit and you will see the person against who "no complaint" was made's books for sale, and continue to the bottom of the page. Alternating with the image of the cmpa's leaders smirking, is a picture of a stack of cash (filthy lucre)and a begging message to give them more. Perhaps that will just vanish too, and nobody be accountable. Ecclesiastes 1:9
Hi there - none of what you say surprises me. My mother is a traditional Christo who will not hear a bad word said about the Christadelphians or the Christadelphian Office. When I asked her about what she thought about the scandal about the former editor of The Christadelphian Magazine - she will not discuss it and I am the one in the wrong!! It absolutely infuriates me that she simply will not discuss it.
I think my Mother's approach - denial - to uncomfortable truths is how unquestioning Christos manage things psychologically.
Extending the 'authority' bit more widely, I am aware of a child (sex) abuse case swept under the carpet by ABs because the alleged perpetrator was a 'pop star' speaker and his name should not be dragged in the mud! I met these two girls (daughters of the 'pop star' speaker) who were in an absolutely terrible state - self harming - burning themselves and so, traumatised.
This, is where blind faith in 'authority' leads you. The Jehovah's Witnesses have had major scandals re multiple child (sex) abuse cases being covered up. And, like the reason given above don't want the (alleged) perpetrators names 'dragged in the mud'.
I can think of another case where a Christadelphian committed suicide due to the abuse handed out by the AB's at that person's Ecclesia.
This is a major, reason why I think the Christadelphians are morally bankrupt and why I could never, ever rejoin them.
Joseph, it looks like the cmpa are keeping an eye on your comments. Their website is now displaying a pop up telling the viewer about the all new website, and the mugshots and filthy lucre have disappeared!
Please do not comment as 'Anonymous'. Rather, choose 'Name/URL' and use a fake name. The URL can be left blank. This makes it easier to see who is replying to whom.
Hi - this is an interesting one as a self confessed rebel!
ReplyDeleteI agree with Einstein's premise but would add a caveat to this.
Firstly, authority is generally being challenged with the Net enabling people to see through the nonsense. This in part, is why the Christadelphians are in decline - would be members simply check up on the Net if something is true or not.
Going back to the point Einstein made, I have seen 'blind' faith operating with the older ones in the Christadelphians. For example, in the 1990s I saw (older) Christadelphians appealing to the editor of the Christadelphian Office to bully "wayward" Ecclesias & thereby running rough shod over the autonomy of that Ecclesia. And what drove this was a 'blind' faith in the (abusive) authority of the Christadelphian Office in which the abusive and dysfunctional way the Christadelphian Office was never questioned.
One of the things that made me so angry about the way the Christadelphian Office was held in such so high regard by some, was the complete lack of accountability. And on the matter of the scandal of money going missing and the Editor of The Christadelphian Magazine resigning, is how come some the accountants did not spot this - over a period of ten years! How come the accountants were not held accountable for their incompetence? How come there there were no checks & balances in place & how come those that should have put those checks & balances in place were not held accountable?
I understand that when this scandal broke, the money was not going to be paid back by the Christadelphian Office until, the charities whom the money had been stolen from pushed hard and demanded the money back - what the hell was going on in the minds of those in 'authority' that the Christadelphian Office did not immediately, volunteer to pay the money back? Blind faith in incompetent authority deed!
Max,
DeleteSome interesting points. Truly amazing that ecclesias would vest authority over them to the cmpa, and even more bizarre that the cmpa would "accept" that authority.
You don't have to be clever to see that a magazine publisher has no authority AT ALL over a collection of religious meetings. More fool them for accepting that.
Ecclesial autonomy is something of a misnomer too. In (I think) 2016, the magazine reported on a recording brother who had been in place for 70 years. My own former ecclesia has AB's from only 3 families, and all, including the RB have been in place for 25 years+, and as people die, the "gene pool" gets ever smaller. Hardly a progressive or democratic structure is it? More a recipe for abuse or at the very least, stagnation if you think about it.
With regard to the "scandal",as you call it, I too was baffled at the time as to how both professional (think qualified and paid) accountants, and also professional (think qualified, paid, and accountable), auditors could have not only missed the discrepancy, 10 times over, but also the trustees could have missed the discrepancy 10 times over too? It's a highly unlikely set of circumstances that not only beggars belief, but also gives rise to speculation as to the real motive behind there being "no complaint" being made against any party. I have a pretty good idea of what I think occurred, but it is NOT for discussion here, since no facts were ever published.
Either way, within a few short years, the person at the centre of this business, was refellowshipped, and was pushing bills through my sister's door telling her to go to a Bible class at some scout hut in her village. Like nothing had happened. Nobody accountable.
It's a sad fact that Christadelphians are never, ever, accountable and will seek to blame just about anybody for their incompetence.
Want to know what the cmpa is about. Head over to their barely functional website at www.thechristadelphian.com scroll down a bit and you will see the person against who "no complaint" was made's books for sale, and continue to the bottom of the page. Alternating with the image of the cmpa's leaders smirking, is a picture of a stack of cash (filthy lucre)and a begging message to give them more. Perhaps that will just vanish too, and nobody be accountable.
Ecclesiastes 1:9
Hi there - none of what you say surprises me. My mother is a traditional Christo who will not hear a bad word said about the Christadelphians or the Christadelphian Office. When I asked her about what she thought about the scandal about the former editor of The Christadelphian Magazine - she will not discuss it and I am the one in the wrong!! It absolutely infuriates me that she simply will not discuss it.
ReplyDeleteI think my Mother's approach - denial - to uncomfortable truths is how unquestioning Christos manage things psychologically.
Extending the 'authority' bit more widely, I am aware of a child (sex) abuse case swept under the carpet by ABs because the alleged perpetrator was a 'pop star' speaker and his name should not be dragged in the mud! I met these two girls (daughters of the 'pop star' speaker) who were in an absolutely terrible state - self harming - burning themselves and so, traumatised.
This, is where blind faith in 'authority' leads you. The Jehovah's Witnesses have had major scandals re multiple child (sex) abuse cases being covered up. And, like the reason given above don't want the (alleged) perpetrators names 'dragged in the mud'.
I can think of another case where a Christadelphian committed suicide due to the abuse handed out by the AB's at that person's Ecclesia.
This is a major, reason why I think the Christadelphians are morally bankrupt and why I could never, ever rejoin them.
Joseph, it looks like the cmpa are keeping an eye on your comments. Their website is now displaying a pop up telling the viewer about the all new website, and the mugshots and filthy lucre have disappeared!
ReplyDeleteMark,
DeleteYou must be looking at the mobile version. On the PC version, they are all still there grinning happily at the prospect of more free cash....
They have two websites, optimised for pc and mobiles? They really are embracing the "wisdom of men"! :-)
Delete